[LINK] - The Season 5 Finale - The Incident - 05-13-09
Posted 5/13/2009 11:04:00 AM
The Incident Jack's decision to set things right on the island is met with some strong resistance by those close to him, and Locke assigns Ben a difficult task. http://abc.go.co....t/index?pn=index Totally Lost - Entertainment Weekly - Jeff Jensen & Dan Snierson with Carlton Cuse & Damon Lindelof: http://www.youtu....feature=featured Michael Emerson calls our show to talk about the Lost Season 5 Finale: http://www.prest....m/audio/1274.mp3 * UPDATE * Our Season 5 Finale Discussion: http://www.prest....m/audio/1277.mp3
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  1. BB posted on 05/13/2009 01:52 PM
    Theory on what's going to happen tonight ... The Swan is going to have it's electromagnetic explosion which will result in those in 1977 going back to 2007, their real present. Thoughts? The survivors have to reunite at some point. During the electromagnetic explosion of the Swan station in 2004, there was a big flash which enabled the island to be seen or accessed. During each time travel, there is also a big flash that is seen by those that time travel but interestingly does not seem to be seen by anyone else. (Notice that when Richard talks about the time travelers disappearing he just says they disappear. Nothing about a flash. Also, when Locke time traveled from 1977 while getting the bullet removed by Richard, Ben and Locke (hiding in the bushes) did not see a flash nor did we.) The time travels all happened because the wheel that Ben turned end of last season was not set correctly, thus keeping the electromagnetic energy open and imbalanced. Once Locke set it properly, the time travel stopped. Based on the above, time travel only happens when something happens with the electomagnetic energy, most likely an anomaly. We know the electromagnetic explosion is a huge explosion. My theory is it is a big enough explosion to knock everybody back to where they are supposed to be. And it's the only way we know of that all the original survivors that are still living can be reunited. To take the theory a little further ... As for Jacob, we will see who/what Jacob is in 1977 tonight so that the survivors can use that info in 2007 to get whatever info they need (i.e. solve the final mysteries of the island) and get off the island in 2007. I also would not be surprised that if by the end of the episode Locke is still trying to kill Jacob, Locke either gets killed or just before Locke tries to kill Jacob, the Swan explosion happens, saving Jacob. I can see Locke being killed because the end of the show is either about everyone dying or getting off the island or some other form of their own salvation. Locke would be a resistance to everyone getting off the island. But, I admit, it's unlikely Locke would be killed off.
  2. Aryanus posted on 05/13/2009 03:58 PM
    Did we ever find out who was shooting at Sawyer/Juliet when they were in the canoe during one of the flashbacks? Did I miss it?
  3. Joe posted on 05/13/2009 07:22 PM
    @ Aryanus: No, I don't believe we officially know who was shooting at the canoe although my guess is that it was ~2007 and Bram / Illana etc. were on the canoe. Each season finale has been more phenomenal than the next. I have high expectations for this one. Can't wait
  4. 4Ward posted on 05/13/2009 08:06 PM
    to those who don't know the statue (now that weve seen it from the side i can say this) is the egyptian god Amut
  5. Jerry posted on 05/13/2009 10:01 PM
    WOW
  6. Kyle posted on 05/13/2009 10:03 PM
    Are you freakin kidding me? Great episode cant wait for the next season. So whats going on with locke, and jacob says they are coming......who is coming? I love this show!
  7. GRRRRRRR posted on 05/13/2009 10:09 PM
    DAMN YOU LOST!!!!! I'm calling it. We will NEVER get answers.
  8. BAB posted on 05/13/2009 10:09 PM
    Okay...its going to be like ground hog's day...deja vue if care to entertain...they are all going to back at the airport wondering that they feel this has all happened before.... I love and hate LOST at the same time...looking forward to the next and final season.!
  9. Chris posted on 05/13/2009 10:26 PM
    So, i guess Juliet detonated the bomb....AHHHH!!! Why do they always do this at the end of every season? It was a great episode though. I'd like to know the translation of Richards answer to what lies in the shadow of the statue.
  10. Adam R. posted on 05/13/2009 10:29 PM
    I think the other man on the beach with Jacob is Esau.
  11. TJ posted on 05/13/2009 10:31 PM
    I think you are right because the history I found on ammit is this "Ammut (AMMIT) "Devouress of the Dead". Egyptian demonic goddess who attended the Judging of the Dead. She was depicted as having the head of a crocodile, the torso of a lioness and the hindquarters of a hippopotamus. She waited in the Judgement Hall of the Two Truths during the Weighing of the Heart ceremony, and devoured those deemed to be sinners." It seems to fit the description of what happened to Ben when he came face to face with the smoke monster.
  12. Di5 posted on 05/13/2009 10:37 PM
    I can't believe they killed off Juliet. I guess they had to to make the original triangle with Jack, Kate and Sawyer. I thought for sure it would be Sayid who would die. I'm totally confused with Locke. Is he the bad guy? How about Jacob interacting with all of the main characters. It's interesting that he met Kate and Sawyer and Juliet when they were children. Did he save John when he fell and then cause the death of Sayid's wife. The show was excellent tonight!
  13. pq posted on 05/13/2009 10:38 PM
    Okay all you latin speakers. What does \"ille qui nos omnes servanti\" mean? That is the answer to what lies in the shadow of the statue. Too overwhelmed to write anything else now.
  14. LostinPhilly posted on 05/13/2009 10:38 PM
    1 word to sum up that season finale...WOW!!! Seeing Rose, Bernard, and Vincent...awesome! Everyone says that it's Jack & Kate who are those skeletons in the caves, but now I think after hearing what Bernard said that those 2 might be Rose & Bernard...hmmmm. Also, flashbacks were so good! With Jacob being involved with everyone from the island. We finally know how Hurley ended up on flight 316 and how John survived the 8 story fall! And of course, now we have 2 John Locke's...WHAT???? If that isn't confusing anyone else, then I dunno. Don't yell at me if I missed it, but when Jacob said, "I guess you found your loophole"...do we know what that loophole is yet? And if so, can someone please fill me in???? And I'm also hoping that when Jacob said, "They're coming" to John & Ben, he was talking about the 70's survivors. Cause if he's just talking about Alpert and them coming in, I'm gonna be kinda let down. All in all, a WONDERFUL finale and of course...2010 can't come soon enough for any of us because we want more Lost!
  15. Scanner420 posted on 05/13/2009 10:39 PM
    Holy! Crap! What a great episode!!! So...who died? Juliette? Sayid? Great exchange between sawyer and juliette and sawyer and kate! Rose and bernard are alive!!! Who knew? I've had the feeling they're Adam and Eve in the cave! Great Vinent cameo too. Miles calling Chang "Dad" was creepy, as was seeing Locke both in the hatch box and at the foot of the statue. And Man.......That Jacob sure gets around!!
  16. sarge posted on 05/13/2009 10:39 PM
    Timeloops? Two Lockes? Jacob? Richard? The Shadow Group? The Bomb? The Beginning? WHH? Free will? Charlie's ring Sun found? The first 5 seasons relevance as of now? The terrible excuse for an ending? Come on. I have no concrete evidence to speculate after that. All I have now are wild guesses.
  17. Lee posted on 05/13/2009 10:45 PM
    Okay, this season finale is starting to hurt my head in terms of all the different things left up in the air, moreso than others. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we hinted to deaths of both a major and minor character of the show towards the end of this season. So, arguably Faraday was the minor character, which leaves the major characters death still up in the air. Was it Sayid due to the gunshot wound? As improbable of Juliet waking up after that fall and the subsequent refuse piling on top of her not killing her she clearly lived long enough to detonate the bomb, but does she survive the blast? Does anyone survive it? And then you've got the whole twist with Locke not being alive after all, but some guy assuming his form, which is he most likely did with Christian. So does Locke still being dead count towards the death of a major character? Or will this all be a moot point if Faraday was right and the explosion did fix things? I did love seeing Rose and Bernard with Vincent again. And I like the parallels between the new guy and Jacob in relation to Ben and Widmore. But yeah, so many possible outcomes are in limbo right now and my head HURTS!
  18. Cheech posted on 05/13/2009 10:47 PM
    "That which will save us all" If my latin is correct. So is it God vs. Satan? Obviously it is good vs. evil. Was the guy with Jacob in the beginning smokey? Can smokey(seth-god of chaos) take forms of different people? Locke, Christian, Ben's Daughter. Why do people leaving the island have to be sedated? Why did Locke not remember the compass? Was it really Locke or someone else? Does the bomb blow up the statue and who is the "they" that are coming? Great episode
  19. Cheech posted on 05/13/2009 10:51 PM
    Good vs Evil or is it Religion vs Science????
  20. Jukin posted on 05/13/2009 10:53 PM
    Holy crap! Great episode - I guess we'll find out if "what happened, happened."
  21. Shelleegirl posted on 05/13/2009 10:54 PM
    What a great episode! And what better way to watch it then in a room full of fans! Thanks Preston & Steve for a fitting end to a great season of LOST! 2010-just around the corner!
  22. Krys posted on 05/13/2009 11:25 PM
    Was the cabin that Rose & Bernard living in the same cabin Ben took Locke to when they went to meet "Jacob" a while back? Seems to easy, but you never know. Unfortunately for Juliet, stopping the plane crash doesn't help her. If time gets put back into place, she will still get led to the island, and deal with Ben all over again. She still won't get back to help her sister...unless Ben lets her take the sub...but would he? Hmmm.
  23. Cheech posted on 05/13/2009 11:35 PM
    Another thought. Was the other guy Esau, Jacob's brother? Jacob came out of the womb on Easu's left heel. He tricked his father into giving him the kingdom, Esau became furious and vowed to kill Jacob.
  24. Krys posted on 05/13/2009 11:47 PM
    My last thought about Juliet brings up another point... If the plane doesn't crash, then poor Desmond will still be down in the hatch punching numbers. He'll never be reunited with Penny. And BTW, was that Penny on the preview for the new show by the creators of Lost?
  25. Cheech posted on 05/13/2009 11:54 PM
    My long theory of Jacob and Esau: They *may* be related, but more importantly, they both draw their power from the island, much like the healer in Australia. The two have completely different agendas. Esau wants to keep the power safe and secret, repelling anyone from the island in any way possible. Jacob wants to share the power with humanity, and this brings death and corruption to the island along with it. Esau wants to end this threat, but, for some reason, can't. The Dharma Initiative showed that there are two pockets of power (electromagnetic energy) stored up under the temple/orchid and under the swan. After the nuclear explosion, one of those two pockets of power is crippled, and this happens to be Esau's. His power is dissipated and he becomes the Smoke Monster, while Jacob traps him in the cabin. After this, I can't really imagine what happens to break the ash and let him out of the cabin. Maybe it was Hurley running away. Either way, Jacob had a prolonged period of sole rule over the island, and brought more and more people to the island, continuing the Dharma Initiative, replacing it, and having them bring more people. After Esau escapes, he starts working for revenge, and finally uses Locke, who is powerful in his own right, to finally kill Jacob. Im done posting for now...I think
  26. Unemployed Scott posted on 05/14/2009 12:07 AM
    That was by far the best episode of the entire series. Have a few theories that should be close to true: @Lee, i agree the this is not a second John Locke, rather a guy in his form. This guy has been manipulating events on and off the island just like Jacob was doing off of the island. He probably is the one who takes form of all these "ghosts" the survivors see and therefore influences their actions. However, he also cannot directly kill Jacob, he has to convince someone to do it for him. In the beginning he says "you know how bad I want to kill you", he needed a loop hole, someone else to kill jacob. Enter Ben and there you go. "They're Coming"....Jacob's people on the plane that had Locke's body? I'm hoping the blast sends the other survivors to 2000-whenever we are and doesn't cancel the plane crashing. Though you can argue either jacob or the other guy were responsible. I was comparing these two new figures to gods playing a game of chess with the survivors as pieces. The was a ridiculous twist and brings everything back to "mystical" proportion. Gadzooks. Thanks if anyone made it through my post.
  27. Michael posted on 05/14/2009 12:08 AM
    I think that all of the people that Jacob went to meet when they we're younger are reincarnations of Egyptian Gods.. Hurley is Anubis - The Guide of the Dead thats why he can talk to the dead, Charlie was Hathor - The God of Music although Jacob as far as we know met him as a kid, Sun and Jin could possibly be Isis and Osiris, And this could explain why Locke could heal on the island. And all of these reincarnation we're also on The Black Pearl and destroyed the statue with the dynamite. That could be why the other guy who is looking like people wants to kill them and said they destroy everything, also they are the "They're Coming". Also a reach but LOST could refer to these "Gods" being away from the island and not lost on the island.
  28. ana d posted on 05/14/2009 12:20 AM
    Adam R. you are pure genius!! i bet it IS esau!!!! and jacob stole his birthright and all that. damn wish i thought of it first. ALSO if it IS jacob and esau the whole egyptian theme makes sense since after the famine that is where they settled. they would have been one of the first time travelers. brilliant. bet everyone who thought jack was jacob feels like an idiot now.......this episode was one big wtf moment. im sad they killed juliette. poor sawyer. even though i didn't like them as a couple it was a sad moment. im hoping the "blast them back to where they are supposed to be" theory is correct, but have we ever been so lucky? "ille qui nos omnes servanti" means that which protects/saves us all" i think they both are relevant. all i know is if next season begins in LAX and nothing ever happened i will be VERY disappointed.
  29. Neil Hunkins posted on 05/14/2009 12:56 AM
    I believe what Richard says translates to, "He who will save us all." Also, there's no guarantee that Juliet is dead. Obviously, we know she somehow survived the drop down the drill site and all of the machinery falling on top of her . . . somehow. Then she detonates the H-bomb and that's all we know until next January/February. So again, no confirmation on whether she is dead or still alive. Personally, I think she'll be back. Juliet has become one of the most pivotal and intriguing characters on the show. Also, it's interesting how Sawyer is now in virtually the same spot he was at the end of Season 4. Back then, he thought Kate was possibly dead after seeing the smoke trail of the freighter on the horizon.
  30. lostfan posted on 05/14/2009 06:15 AM
    What lies in the shadow of the statue? translation: "The one who will save us."
  31. hlh posted on 05/14/2009 07:06 AM
    smokey is locke and was alex and was christian...ben had to kill jacob as part of his punishment from smokey. thats why he kept him around...smokey is the other guy in the beginning of the show with jacob. he wants to protect the island and keep people away from it...also remember that when ben went to the chapel locke told him he had to go under it...ben asked why and he told him thats what he was told...notice john didnt go down with ben...why..because he was smokey and needed to go confront ben...alex told him to follow john locke because he needed someone else to do the dirty deed for him of killing jacob. "we're retired" best line of the night...it was great to see rose and bernard and vincent again...i guess we now know that they were trying to hide from everyone else and they werent too happy when they found them....nice cabin btw. as for juliet...she wasnt crushed by the stuff in the hole..it had wedged itself up against the wall of the hole and was actually protecting her from being crushed....ihope she comes back and i hope sayid is ok as well...some great acting tonite..great acting!!! poor jack...always getting the shit beat out of him!!! 2010 is too far away..what if i die before then???
  32. HORRIBLE posted on 05/14/2009 07:14 AM
    That was the Worst Season Finale I have ever seen. I have watched LOST since night #1 and am a big fan. But that was such a horrible episode. And they won't be back until 2010!!??? If I didn't put so much time in I would move on.
  33. that guy posted on 05/14/2009 07:51 AM
    I don't think the status was of Ammut, I think it is Anubis. Anubis is often pictured holding an Ankh and is associated with the afterlife.
  34. wow posted on 05/14/2009 08:12 AM
    As a part of the whole, what happened, happened theory I think this series of events or at least part of these events happened before. I am saying this as Dr. Marvin Candle/Pierre Chang has his hand/arm crushed last night and we know that in some of the orientation videos, he has a protestic arm. Loved the episode! Loved all the Jacob sightings. 2010 is too far away
  35. Lostfan2009 posted on 05/14/2009 08:15 AM
    I willing to bet that the white light at the end of the show was not the bomb going but the light we saw everytime there was a time shift. And that the crew in the 70's is going to be in the present time when the show comes back next year.
  36. Sophia posted on 05/14/2009 08:18 AM
    Here is some info on Jacob and Esau http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob
  37. Blt4ice posted on 05/14/2009 08:23 AM
    I think that Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Jin, and the rest were chosen to go back in time to change. They were all conflicted in the future and maybe they had to prove themselves to be good. Which is the reason why they were not on the lists that Jacob gave to Ben, they were given a second chance. Now in regards to the final Jacob phrase, that "They are coming" maybe that meant that Jack and the 1977 group are coming to aid Jacob.
  38. Beth posted on 05/14/2009 08:36 AM
    I just found this online re: the name Jacob in the bible: Benjamin, was the twelfth and youngest son of Jacob. His mother was Rachel, Jacob's wife. Benjamin was born during the journey that Jacob and his family took from Padan Aram to Canaan. His mother Rachel named him "Ben-oni," meaning "Son of my sorrow," before she died during the childbirth, but Jacob called him Benjamin.
  39. Manders posted on 05/14/2009 08:42 AM
    I agree with Horrible..terrible season finale.
  40. Kim posted on 05/14/2009 08:46 AM
    Does anyone else think the fake John Locke is actually Whitmore.Ever since he was banished he has been trying to get back to the island. He is linked to Eloise, Daniel, Penny, Ben & he helped the real John Locke when John left the island. He has the money & the means to have reconstructive surgery & he basically made reference to it when speaking with Jacob - "I've been through a lot to get her" & when Jacob first saw him he said - "I see you finally found a loophole". Thoughts?
  41. wtflost posted on 05/14/2009 08:56 AM
    the latin translation to Richard's statement (according to univ. of notre dame prof) "That by whom we all serve"
  42. Sophia posted on 05/14/2009 08:59 AM
    Actually, the the statue turns out to be Sobek! We see the face... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobek
  43. 28hopup posted on 05/14/2009 09:09 AM
    If Esau has the ability to take on other forms, who's to say that he wasn't posing as Jacob in the flashbacks with Kate, Sawyer, and Locke (after falling 8 stories). If Esau needed to orchestrate his return to the Island, he could be the one behind the crash of 815 putting everything in motion to return to the island to kill Jacob. Esau (as Locke) told Jacob that he had no idea what he had to do to get there.
  44. Colleen posted on 05/14/2009 09:15 AM
    O M G ....... I haven't had a chance to read the other posts yet, but I will. All I have to say is: WHAT AN AMAZING FINALE! Probably my favorite episode so far, if only because we FINALLY get some insight into the mystery that is Jacob! I have this episode DVR'd, so I'm watching again tonight, but some quick thoughts: 1. A few news articles I read about the show seemed to not think about this possibility, but I'm sure someone on this blog already mentioned, that the person who we think is Locke walking around in 2007 is some form of the man who was talking to Jacob on the beach in the beginning of the ep. The one who said how much he wants to kill him. 2. Obviously, a main ? about Jacob now is: why so easily killed by a knife if he has been immortal all this time? And is it the knife that we see pop up throughout different seasons with the other items that are supposed to be special? The items Richard presented to a young Locke as a boy? 3. Loved how Jacob had some contact with the Losties over their lives. And he seemed to affect them AFTER touching them physically (which he did to almost all of them in some way), or handing them some object. 4. The bomb going off: what a way to end the show! I LOVE LOST! 5. Loved all the things we find out about Ben. He really is shaping up to be less evil and more vulnerable than we thought. He still has major issues, but overall, he's just REALLY complex. The last season of this show is going to be AWESOME! If the finale of season 5 is any indication, we are in for a really great ending to this storyline.
  45. Brian C. posted on 05/14/2009 09:20 AM
    I have seen a few mentions in other threads, but I feel this topic may need it's own mention, at least after last night. For ease of typing I am naming Mr. Black, Esau, though I do not really think they are the Jacob/Esau from the bible. Maybe Jacob and Esau are meant to represent Faith and Science respectively. Science is always trying to "kill" faith by proving it false, much like Esau wanting to kill Jacob. If you look at the history we know: -pre 1950's: There are various points in real history/mythology that refer to this. The Aztecs, Atlantis, Ancient Egyptians, etc. each time they reach the pinnacle of scientific discovery and then suddenly disappeared. - 1950's Scientist show up to test nucular weapons, Jacob and the Others stop them. - 1970's Darma shows up to do all kinds of science stuff. Jacob and Ben purge them shortly after in the 80s 2000's A group of people (Losties) show up, seemingly random, until last night showing Jacob touching each of them. Some have faith some have science. There has even been an episode called Man of Science, Man of Faith. The key is "they" (Science/Faith) can not kill each other, they need humans to do it for them as they are ideologies. In the real world, there is the notion of a "Theory of Everything" that if found would in theory disprove the existance of God/Religion/Faith/Fate/etc. Could that be the "war" that is coming? So let's look at some occurances: Science/Knowledge - Time Travel, Doomsday clocks, Scientiic experiments, nucular weapons, electromagnetic, matter relocation, reanimation, paradox, etc. Faith/Religion - Resurrection, eternal life, Egyptian god statues, miracles, judgment, temples, etc. I see the show ending with Esau on the beach, grinning, and then Jacob walks up behind him and says something like, "well you won this time, lets see how science can do without faith there to question it...." PS - Oddly enough, JJ touches on this in Fringe too. Maybe it is not a coincidence.... When one, Science/Faith, reaches its peak, something must come along to challenge it, or something along those lines. PSS - There is a third ideal often talked about...Chaos. It is possible that humans are the Chaos in the equation, or the variables as Faraday states. Their questionning faith/science leads to the events we have seen to date.
  46. lost4u posted on 05/14/2009 09:22 AM
    Does anyone see any connection that is was John Locke's body on Flight 316 to the bible passage of John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
  47. ajp posted on 05/14/2009 09:25 AM
    everything that the survivors did in the seventies is the reason why things are the way they are in the present. It was Syeed shooting ben and kate taking him to richard that caused ben to be the way he is. Richard said if i do this he will never be the same and he will be one of us. If Syeed did not shoot him, he would have never been an "other", would have never killed the Dharma initiative he would have never been the leader of the others, he would have grown up normal. I think what daniel said was right originally you can not change anything in the past no matter how hard you try. Miles was right when he said how do we know blowing up the power source is not exactly what started everything. If they did not blow up the power source, then i think they would have never come to the island just like if syeed did not shoot ben, none of this would have happened. It is them in the past that makes what happened in the present possible. dont you love time travel? Daniel did not change his thinking, it was the only way to convince jack to sacrifice himself to do what needed to be done. The survivors blowing up the bomb will be what allows them to return to the island not LAX in the present day. (i think) Jacob said that things only end once everything else is just progress. i think that it will end up like the matrix where things change in minor ways but the end result is always the same untill they get it right. maybe they come back to the present to save jacob. is it the survivors from the seventies who are coming? and they reset what the guy in black did by killing jacob. he did seem pretty pissed when jacob said they were coming. that guy is definately the black smoke and asked locke for help a couple of years ago in the cabin
  48. sean h. posted on 05/14/2009 09:43 AM
    Hi My translation of the latin for who is in the shadow of the statue? "Those who whatch over (protect) each one of us." Interesting...
  49. danny ecudanob posted on 05/14/2009 09:54 AM
    One thing. Everyone says "esau" had to find a loophole to kill Jacob, but dosent anyone wonder why he couldnt kill him hiself?
  50. BB posted on 05/14/2009 10:07 AM
    Some questions answered and of course some new questions. Adam and Eve are Bernard and Rose. I think that's pretty obvious. The survivors cause the Incident by exploding the H-bomb in the electromagnetic energy. Juliet I'm sure is dead - how can she survive a nuclear bomb blowing up in her face. Sayid who knows. Probably comes down to if he serves a purpose in the battle of 'Esau' vs 'Jacob'. Locke is dead but Esau (or whoever he is) has taken on his form for now. Now we know why 'Locke' had such a purpose, which varied from the true Locke. Notice that Jacob at the beginning and I believe throughout was dressed in white while the other guy (Esau?) at the beginning was dressed in black. Also, when we first see Esau as Locke he is in a black cloak. Sounds like Good vs Evil. Another big question ... what is the loophole? Does it mean a hole (time travel) in the loop (history repeating itself)? At the beginning of the episode we see Jacob and Esau looking out at what must be the Black Rock. There are no colored people on the island so all of those on the ship must have been killed before they were able to have children. Is that the destiny of the survivors? Thus, the loop is closed when the 'newcomers' society is killed. Yes, there would have been white people on the ship and maybe they became the Others or maybe they are dead. And just who are the people that brought Locke's body to the Others? They are not Others since Richard and the Others did not know them. Unless they are deceiving the Others, they can not be working for Esau. They could have been working for Jacob, off the island, but there has to be some type of a conflict next season that results in finishing the 'loop'. Esau (and Ben) against Jacob's people (the Others with Richard)? Esau needs people on his side for there to be a conflict. Or do the Others move to Esau's side if Jacob is in fact dead? What side do the other survivors take - those most likely time travelling back from 1977 to 2007? Or, since nothing is ever simple, do they form a 3rd side? And we still don't really know who Richard is. At the beginning I thought Richard was the other guy with Jacob (give him a shave and ...). But, then that got killed with the 'Locke' and Jacob encounter in the statue and references to the start of the episode. So many questions. And we have to wait til January/February!
  51. Scott Weigner posted on 05/14/2009 10:39 AM
    Why Jacob is The Devil Young Kate steals a lunchbox. Jacob gets her out of it, allowing her to get away with stealing. Young Sawyer is encouraged by Jaob to write his note. Thus promoting revenge. Jacob holds back Sayid, but allows the love of his life to get hit by a car and die. Jacob tricks Hurley to come back to the island, telling him what he wants to hear. That he is not cursed, that he is not crazy. Jacob was trapped in a cabin surrounded by ash. Why would ash trap someone who was good? Think of Religion and Ash Wednesday (Edited for those of you who read my intial mistake). The "dark one" is actually good, and the loophole is how can he figure out to kill the devil. The scene we saw last night, is the final scene of the whole show. What we find out next season is that Jacob is the devil and how the "dark one" was able to find his "loophole" and kill him. My theory on the "loophole" is that he can only be killed by one of his children or deciphiles. Benjamin Linus is the devil's son. As he said, "I lie, that's what I do". The "dark one", maybe playing God or Jesus, uses Locke to lead his people to kill the devil and set them free. He is referred to as "Moses" at the end of last nights episode. What did Moses do? Set his people free. Locke's body will be buried in the shadow of the statue. What is buried in the shadow of the staue? "He who shall set us free"
  52. Thomas Tyler posted on 05/14/2009 10:39 AM
    Great finale. Loved the opening. Loved how Jacob was involved in the flashbacks. Great theories and info on the LOST blog. The most loyal LOST fans are on P&S! In the opening sequence, Jacob wore white, Esau wore black. Then at the end, when the traditional LOST wording came on screen, the black and white were reversed. I don’t recall this happening before. The traditional LOST wording is white letters, black background. This can be considered a negative drawing. The ending last night was reversed, black letters on a white background. This can be considered a positive drawing. If so, how did Jacob dying, or the bomb going off, turn LOST from negative to positive? It seems like Jacob dying and the bomb going off would be a negative thing, not positive. Maybe too much is being made of the lettering. But after five years, I’ve learned nothing on LOST is left to chance – everything has a reason.
  53. RunFatPat posted on 05/14/2009 10:53 AM
    I loved the homage to Spielberg's JAWS ending (Juliette's last line was Brody's line before blowing up the shark) ONE THING EVERYONE MISSED I THINK..... had Farady's h-bomb plan worked, would any of them be there in the future? Did the H-bomb tear down the statue ?
  54. nik27 posted on 05/14/2009 10:55 AM
    sorry...posted to the wrong date...anyways - can someone refresh my memory on this detail - when the survivors originally started watching the darma initiative tapes (where Dr. Chang was talking) wasn't there something weird w/ his hand? Last night his hand was crushed...anyone else notice? so many questions and theories I could write all day!
  55. nik27 posted on 05/14/2009 11:02 AM
    Anyone else think that the major character who dies is actually Locke since we all thought he was alive again and he actually isn't....technically anyway even though something else has taken over his body.
  56. wow posted on 05/14/2009 11:20 AM
    to nik27 - dr chang had a prosthetic arm in some of the orientation videos.
  57. nik27 posted on 05/14/2009 11:57 AM
    Scott Weiger's posting was brilliant! As was the one that followed...(sorry didn't write down the name.) But with the whole black/white lettering and background=negative to positive - your totally right and I definately noticed...and it actually coinsides with what Scott Weiger said about Jacob actually being the Devil b/c its the exact opposite of what seems obvious...OMG Crazy!!! As far as the bomb going off and initiating the original crash, what Miles suggested...how is that possible - that would mean that while the "survivors" were in 1977 detinating the bomb they were also on a plane at the exact same time - right? However, there was a picture of the survivors from the first Darma Initiative group (I belive it was found on the present day island where Sun is)...can anyone elaborate on my thoughts? Does anyone know how far appart the islands are? I missed that. By the way - great posts, it really stirs up so many thought processes where the writers are going with this story. Everybodys references and theories are awesome!!! I love it!
  58. nik27 posted on 05/14/2009 12:04 PM
    Last post for now but isn't it interesting how the finale was sponsored by the new move Angels and Demons...just sayin
  59. ek&cb posted on 05/14/2009 12:07 PM
    alright... just some speculation: the guy in the black shirt on the beach can't kill jacob, but he was still alive when the fake john kicked him into the fire... so does he really die? is juliet still alive like desmond when he turned the key? the first scene in which we see jacob, he's making a tapestry... then he goes around to key characters and gives them something or touches them... weaving a tapestry... jacob said everything that happens before the end is progress. so let's say that everything that's happening has been planned by jacob ( including his death ) to prove a point to the guy in the black shirt on the beach. let's say jacob hand picked the people who went to the past, and they stay there after the incident and meet jacob in the 70's. the years go by... they help rebuild the dharma initiative ( the swan and the orchid ) then use the orchid to get back to the present... Probably, not the first to say this but: Widmore wins the auction for the log from the Black Rock, Jacob allows the Black Rock to find the island in the 1800's so the log will tell Widmore how to get back to the isalnd (duh). Ben says Widmore wants to expose the island and Ben is trying to keep it secluded/protected (sound familiar?). I think Richard was on the Black Rock and has been on the island since then and I really hope they get into the details of the crew aboard the Black Rock. Richard made an arrangement with Jacob so that he does not age, but what about the rest of the crew (not the slaves, because we see their skeletons)? What was the arrangement?
  60. ana d posted on 05/14/2009 12:32 PM
    Scott W.....that is the most thoughtful genius thing i have heard yet. and if following the jacob/esau trend jacob did dress in a disguise to steal esaus birthright. that might be a bit of a stretch but i like what you are thinking. IF the survivors are flashed back into the present time, I think Juliette is alive and will flash with the rest of them. but then would the survivors in the present/future flash too?? or just the one's who were flashing all along, and if that's the case what happens to jack, kate, hurley and sayid? oh crap...nosebleed coming on....
  61. squirrel posted on 05/14/2009 03:14 PM
    the guy talking to jacob in the beginning has taken the form of every dead character who has appeared to the survivors and tried to influence them so he could have jacob killed. when the guy in the cabin said "help me" to locke when ben took him there was the guy from the beginning. he was trapped in the cabin surrounded by the black dust on the ground and regained his power when the line was broken john locke is no longer john locke, and the knife selected by young john locke when richard visited him was actually of significance
  62. Pete G posted on 05/14/2009 03:27 PM
    What if this is all a bet between Jacob and the other guy. In the beginning of the episode, they were discussing whether it all ends the same, or as Jacob said, its progress and there is only one ending. Maybe its a bet ala Trading Places between the Duke brothers for a $1.
  63. squiggs posted on 05/14/2009 03:31 PM
    Jacob is the one helping and esau is jealous and does evil. esau i think makes himeself appear as jacob so we dont know who was killed last night in the fire
  64. Russ posted on 05/14/2009 03:42 PM
    You know, it's kinda redundant that the "Big Shocker" for this finale, and also Last season's finale, were both the same. They were both "OMG it's John Locke in a Box". Last season it was a coffin this season it was that crate. Didn't think anything was really that shocking really, not the best finale, but still good I guess
  65. Chris posted on 05/14/2009 04:47 PM
    I think that Jacob's cabin isn't Jacob's at all. It's this "esau" guys cabin. Why would Jacob live there when he already lives under the statue? There was also a knife holding that piece of fabric that has the statue on it into the wall. That seems like a pretty harsh overtone for whoever lives in the cabin. It's possible that the others thought they were following Jacobs orders, but were really following Esau's without knowing it, but that wouldn't explain Richard's situation, being that he seems to be in a position to know who Jacob really is. That does explain though why Ben didn't get the response he was looking for when he asked Jacob "what about me?" What about him? He was following the other guy.
  66. Fred posted on 05/14/2009 05:01 PM
    HORRIBLE if you thought last nights show sucked you need to stop watching
  67. Linda posted on 05/14/2009 05:44 PM
    Go back and watch the episode where Rousseau is holding a man at gunpoint. She came on the island with 3 men, in the background of this scene there are 2 men dead on the beach and the 3rd man she is pointing the gun at... they all look the same (another example of smokey or some other island power taking on the form of someone who is dead, like last night w/ Locke.) This is why Rousseau doesn't believe the guy and shoots him b/c they all look the same. Clearly, something on the island can take on the form of someone who is already dead" Rousseau's pals, Ben's daughter, Chrsitian Shepherd, Locke, maybe even Claire??
  68. k2jr posted on 05/14/2009 06:10 PM
    new poster, all time lost watcher... Struggle of Satan vs. God one theory that i noticed while watching the finale a second time... if locke, is now as we know him not locke (so i'm going to call him not-locke from here on out) is the guy in the beginning in the black who believes that humans bring nothing but corruption etc... if he represents satan.. this matches up with bible history and occurences with satan vs. God regarding the situation with Job. satan (a son of God) wanted what God had. he was envious of God. and he saw mankind as something to be dominated and used for his own purposes (worship). satan has no love for humankind, but God did. Satan at one point goes in front of God and tells him that no person would serve God if they underwent extreme harmful circumstances. Satan figured mankind would only serve God if they received blessings from him. So God allowed Satan to test Job. Satan thought that Job would have every reason to curse God while undergoing hardships and turn on him. Not-Locke tested Ben (a faithful servant of Jacob's) by asserting that all of the faith that Ben put in Jacob, this unseen man, was useless. despite Ben's loyal service he received cancer, lost his daughter and was banished. he was pushing Ben (representative of faithful, good mankind) to see if he would turn on Jacob and lose his faith. he proved the nameless man in the beginning (not-lockes previous self) right, that man brings corruption and destruction and violence only. which is the opposite of what happened in the Bible when Job withstood the catastrophe's he was faced with and remained faithful to God. just an observation. makes me think that this nameless man/not-locke is evil and jacob is good. sorry if that was confusing!!
  69. Forte posted on 05/14/2009 06:30 PM
    Hey umm I Dont have time to read ALL of the blog but Im putting money on it Right Now. I Think Bernard and Rose are the bodies found in season 1 with the black and white stones. In the scene where they were talking with kate and everyone they said in reference to dying "It doesnt matter, as long as were together." So that my contribution...
  70. psfan posted on 05/14/2009 07:14 PM
    Im pretty sure that Jacob comes back as Christan becuse you never see Christan in the past and it is the same deal as Lock and the guy from the beginning of ther show
  71. MarkM posted on 05/14/2009 07:18 PM
    Some are saying that Adam & Eve are Rose and Bernard. If I remember correctly, the two skeletons had on Dharma clothes. Rose and Bernard did not \"join\" Dharma.
  72. Di5 posted on 05/14/2009 09:24 PM
    Just another thought. When Ben went to see Whitmore (When he was in bed), he said he couldn't kill him. Maybe that's why Jacob couldn't be killed by the guy on the beach. Esau couldn't kill Jacob Ben couldn't kill Whitmore Ben apparently couldn't kill Locke on the island(he shot him after they left Jacob's cabin.) I have no idea what any of that means!!!
  73. Kate posted on 05/14/2009 09:25 PM
    so Alana (sp?) didn't bring Sayid to the island because she was working for Ben... but apparently she brought him to the island because she was working for Jacob? why would Jacob want Sayid on the island? why was Alana all beat up when Jacob went to see her?
  74. Lumin posted on 05/14/2009 11:14 PM
    Who's to say the bomb ever went off? Maybe that's just how they decided to end the show. If it did go off I hope we see the "Losties" as if the plane landed. What does any of them have to go back to. Ex: Kate=Jail Rose=Cancer John Locke=Crippled etc and soforth. They have no idea how good they really have it on this island. Who knows?? Either way I almost can't believe we finally met this Jacob. ...and how about the dude in the beginning talking with Jacob, that guy could be the smoke monster...and maybe it was Richard that was on the Black Rock(never ages and looks just like a pirate) packed with explosives to do the same thing the Daharma people came to do. Explore this magic island. I don't know...but this show is the best ever.
  75. Fred posted on 05/15/2009 04:48 AM
    I want to go back and watch the episode where Locke is almost pulled int the hole by smokey. It must have more significance to it than I origionaly thought
  76. VeryLost85 posted on 05/15/2009 08:25 AM
    The statue is clearly Sobek the God of Crocodiles, Power, Protection and Fertility. Which actually fits quite nicely when you read about his mythology. http://www.toure....ories/sobeka.htm He is a darker god and said to be the righter of evil deeds and not necessarily acting with good intentions. With that being said my theory is that this is the land of the dead, which explains the spirts, and that jacob is Sobek and protects those spirts from the guy at the beginning of "The incident" who i believe is the embodiment of Set. Set was one of ancient Egypt's earliest gods, a god of chaos, confusion, storms, wind, the desert and foreign lands. Im going to stop there but if anyone decides to read into it im sure they will find more simularities.
  77. Aryanus posted on 05/15/2009 10:10 AM
    If the Man-in-Black is impersonating the dead on the island, was he also Ben\'s daughter who told Ben to unconditionally follow Locke? If this is true, why didn\'t psuedo-Locke know it when Ben told him? He just said, \"wow, that\'s going to make things easier.\" That would make me assume that psuedo-Locke and the smoke monster are different. And if dead-Alex was Jacob in disguise, why would he tell Ben to follow Locke? That doesn\'t make sense, either. This leads me to the conclusion that all the dead people we\'ve seen on the island may be an entirely separate entity than Jacob and this Man-in-Black. Maybe it\'s Johnny Cash.
  78. destro610 posted on 05/15/2009 11:53 AM
    it wasnt jacob trapped in the cabin. it was that other guy. he took on the form of dead bodies that were on the island like mr. eckos brother, Christian Shepard, bens daughter, and now locke. he also asked locke to help him a few seasons back when ben took locke to the cabin. he is also the smoke monster. this is also why bens daughter appears and tells ben that he has to do whatever Locke tells him to do (like killing jacob). also remember the knife in the wall at the cabin was stabbed through a cloth with the image of the statue on it. jacob lives in whats left of the statue.
  79. Ashley posted on 05/15/2009 12:56 PM
    I totally agree with Scott. Great post! Question: If the bomb does wipe out everyone on the island, wouldn't that kill Eloise and unborn Farraday, therefore changing the future?
  80. Chris posted on 05/15/2009 01:55 PM
    Miles had it right the whole time. the bomb going off is what always had happened. Miles said that towards the end, NOT setting off the bomb is what would change things. It makes sense; when we're introduced to Desmond and the whole initial idea behind the hatch, he was wearing some kind of radiation suit whenever he went outside and warned people of getting sick from being on the island. Fallout from an atomic bomb would also cause infertility and birth defects which was what Juliet was working on fixing when we were introduced to her in season 3.
  81. BB posted on 05/15/2009 05:27 PM
    Some comments on the Jacob vs 'Esau' theme ... What lies in the shadow of the statue is "ille qui nos omnES servabit" which as someone said translates to "He who shall save/protect us all" at least according to a wiki. Who has been protecting the island (island = "us all") all this time - Jacob. Also, Jacob lives in the shadow of the statue and always has. That's why in the opening scene he is by the statue. I think Jacob is the answer. It's probably 'Esau' that was in the cabin in the Help Me scene. That's why it was surrounded by ash. Breaking the ash set him free. The cabin was probably 'Esau's' home. The different manifestations on the island and off can be Jacob or 'Esau' or sometimes one and other times the other. If one can change forms, I'm sure both can. When Ben stabs Jacob, notice that Jacob never moves to raise his hands or arms in defense or to fight back. Notice his calmness during the whole scene. Evil would fight back. Good would not. Also, the top part of the weaving in this scene looks like people preying to the sun. (Best view of it when 'Esau' tells Ben to do as he said and of just the sun part at the beginning of the show.) Not something attributed to evil. When Jacob says 'They are coming', notice the fear in Esau's eyes. Fear is an attribute of evil. After 'Esau' kicks Jacob into the fire, notice the anger on 'Esau's' face. Again, an attribute of evil. In every scene with Jacob, Jacob is completely calm. In that scene Esau says "you have no idea what I've gone through to get here." That suggests Esau has been doing a lot of the manipulating. Was it 'Esau' or Jacob that told Locke to move the island. We've always thought it was Jacob, but what about now? In the beginning of the episode, 'Esau' says "One of these days sooner or later [we’ll] run the final loophole my friend. (I can't tell if he says we'll, you'll, or something else.) But, "run the final loophole" suggests this is a reoccurring thing, like a play. Earlier in the conversation 'Esau' says "You are still trying to prove me wrong." Like this is an ongoing thing between the two of them. Goes along with the Good vs Evil theory. Evil always wins, except in rare cases like Job, as cited by someone else. Maybe they are trying to prove if Job really exists or not. So, then, the destiny of everyone is the outcome of the good vs evil battle and their roles in that battle. Finally, good points on the radioactive fallout.
  82. Lost Lady posted on 05/16/2009 08:39 AM
    Did anyone notice that both Jacob and Libby were in the season finale of CSI? I guess the ones they kill off have to make a living somewhere:-)
  83. itsmeyoufreek posted on 05/16/2009 09:13 PM
    I went back and watched the show again. The 2 guys on the beach were God (Jacob) and the devil (unnamed). The show made a lot more sence once I found this. Go ahead and watch it again with this in mind.
  84. shoe posted on 05/16/2009 11:10 PM
    Lots of good posts from other people here. It didn't occur to me to make the connection that a break in the ash around the cabin would in fact be breaking some type of imprisonment barrier, which is a useful connection. A few of you guys have raised the point that the statue is some crocodile dude from Ancient Egypt. Does that guy have four toes on each foot? I think not... question settled. That's right, people, it's actually a representative of an alien race of crocodile people, who happen to all have four toes and love egyptian crap like those weird aliens on Stargate. I do think (hope) that our heroes get transported back to the future at the end of the episode. I agree with whoever it was that said that Richard Alpert was actually one of the crew of the Black Rock. The question I have is how does the Hanso Family fit into that particular motif? Some dude named Hanso was the captain of the Black Rock, some other dude named Hanso was the primary benefactor of the Dharma Initiative. Is Hanso Richard Alpert's nemesis, the same way the scruffy dude is Jacob's nemesis and Charles Widmore is Ben Linus's nemesis? We need more back info on the Dharma Initiative. How did they find the island and what is their real motivation? "Studying elecromagnetic energy" is retarded, since man made sources of electromagnetism have far outstripped naturally occurring terrestrial sources for decades, since the first large particle accelerators were built. Here's my $50,000 question, though. Ben knows that Jacob was never in the cabin. As far as he was concerned, nothing was in the cabin. In Season 4, he takes Locke (and Hurley) to the cabin to "speak to Jacob". Locke comes out and says that he was told to move the island. Ben knows that whoever said this, it was not Jacob. Yet, Ben moves the island. Why? Subsequent events have clearly shown us that the island did not in fact need moving. The frieghter blew itself up, with virtually everyone on board dying as a result. Moving the island unhinged the donkey wheel, causing the random time shifts. As a plot device, this was excellent (turned the show into Tropical Quantum Leap for a while... good stuff). However, as far as something that needed to be done, it was a bit farfetched to say the least... More questions: 1) If the real locke is dead, can he still be brought back to life (as Jacob did when Locke fell out the window)? 2) When Alpert went to visit Locke as a young boy and asked him "which of these is yours", was he looking for the right answer to be the compass? Why did he flip out when Locke took the knife, knowing full well that Locke the boy would have no idea that sixty-odd years in his future, he would happen to have given that compass to him? 3) Is "Esau" or whatever you want to call him, the being who has for the present apparently taken the form of John Locke, in control of the time-shifting? 4) Who are, in fact, the "Others"? Obviously they had the ability to travel to and from the island long before the Dharma people conveniently "left" them a submarine. 5) If Jacob's such a good guy and the "Others" take orders from him, why did he order the mass extinction of the Dharma Initiative? Say what you will about them, none of them (including Roger Linus) deserved that. There were douches aplenty in both of the groups on the island, from what I could see... And, if you've made it this far... 6) Are we absolutely, positively sure that it's not purgatory?
  85. shoe posted on 05/16/2009 11:46 PM
    One final comment: When weird old lady (don't remember if that was Eloise or not) was talking to Desmond about the stability of time, it made me think of a relatively basic concept in physics, which is that the state of any system will tend towards a stable equilibrium. If you extend that to the concept of time travel and its' interactions with "the timeline", it leads to a logical conclusion: the details aren't important, it's the broad strokes that matter. Things happen for a reason far above and beyond the little details of what appear to be contributing factors. Remove one of those contributing factors, or "steps along the way", and something else would have taken their place. This must be the case because otherwise, a thousand different time travelers from a million different eras in the future could have come back to change it. Therefore, the core of the timeline is something immovable, and is simply not subject to alteration. Whatever happened, happened, and whatever will happen, will happen. Furthermore, it's highly likely that freewill is an illusion and that people's responses to stimuli (taking all factors into account as stimuli) are in fact deterministic.
  86. Order66Outlaw posted on 05/17/2009 11:58 AM
    It is not the Egyptian God Amut...its Sobek : Gradually, Sobek also came to symbolize the produce of the Nile and the fertility that it brought to the land; its status thus became more ambiguous. Sometimes the ferocity of a crocodile was seen in a positive light, Sobek in these circumstances was considered the army's patron, as a representation of strength and power. Sobek's ambiguous nature led some Egyptian to believe that he was a repairer of evil that had been done, rather than a force for good in itself, for example, going to Duat to restore damage done to the dead as a result of their form of death. He was also said to call on suitable gods and goddesses required for protecting people in situation, effectively having a more distant role, nudging things along, rather than taking an active part. In this way, he was seen as a more primal god, eventually becoming regarded as an avatar of the primal god Amun, who at that time was considered the chief god. When his identity finally merged, Amun had become merged himself with Ra to become Amun-Ra, so Sobek, as an avatar of Amun-Ra, was known as Sobek-Ra. In Egyptian Art, Sobek was depicted as an ordinary crocodile, or as a man with the head of a crocodile. When considered a patron of the pharaoh's army, he was shown with the symbol of royal authority - the uraeus. He was also shown with an ankh, representing his ability to undo evil and so cure ills. Once he had become Sebek-Ra, he was also shown with a sun-disc over his head, as Ra was a sun god.
  87. Kate posted on 05/17/2009 12:19 PM
    i'm having trouble seeing the premise of Lost coming down to battle between good and evil. it has been so hard to even recognize who are good people and who are the bad... ie-ben vs whitmore and jackob vs dark haired man in the end i think/hope it is going to be much more deep/realisitc than the good team vs the bad team.
  88. SeniorTech posted on 05/17/2009 02:39 PM
    I'll attempt to answer some of your questions Shoe: 1)First off we don't know for sure the Locke was brought back to life by Jacob 2)It would seem that the "right" answer was the compass when you look at Richard and Locke's conversation in 1954 when Locke gave Richard the compass before the flash. Remember in 1977 while Sayid is working on the bomb, Richard doesn't understand why Jack is now following Locke's word about their destiny. Richard says something about being underwhelmed by Locke so that could have been the frustration that you see. It would also seem that Richard was right, there never was anything special about Locke since the real Locke is actually dead and the Locke imposter has been walking around. 3)Don't know if "Esau" controls the time shifting but it looks like he's posed at least as Christian, Locke, Alex, and Smokey. He poses as Christian in the cabin to get Locke to think he's special and again at the FDW to get Locke to leave the island and eventually die. He poses as smokey to pardon Ben and then as Alex to tell Ben to do "whatever" Locke says (only now it's evil Locke) and then of course as Locke to instruct Ben to kill Jacob (the loophole). 4)Ben knew there was no one in the cabin. However the first trip to the cabin wasn't when Locke is instructed to move the island. The first trip was when Locke hears the voice that says help me. Ben realizes that someone or something has spoken to Locke. This leads him to believe maybe Jacob really was in the cabin. He started out playing a joke on Locke, but it turns out the joke was on him. The joke was still kind of on Locke because that wasn't Jacob after all. It was "Esau" manipulating things for his loophole.
  89. SeniorTech posted on 05/17/2009 10:18 PM
    I have to say that I've been pretty stunned that people have questioned weather the bomb went off. As you look at the final events at the swan station I think the writers intenionally didn't have the bomb go off on impact when it fell down the shaft in an attempt to avoid confusion. If the bomb goes off on impact as planned then that would leave open the theory that the bomb was the "incident". By letting the electromagnetic energy disturbance manifest itself it puts a seperation between the "incident" and the bomb blast. I listened to the Lost Chat from Thursday and it was stated that you don't hear the bomb go off. I went back and looked at it again and you definantly hear an explosion before the LOST sound effect. When you take into account Faraday's theory of humans being variables it would seem that the bomb blast could potentially change things as oppossed to the what ever happened happended theory. Also, this would explain Richard's comments to Sun in 2007 when he says that he saw all of the 1977 losties die. The losties would still exist in the future because they are all still alive off island as children at this time living their "normal" lives (Sawyer comments about his parents dying a year ago but he opts not to save them). The events of their life continue to put them on 815 (Jack's dad dies, Kate arrested, etc) but with the bomb blast off setting the swan's electomagnetic energy there's presumably no plane crash. Remember it was Desmond's failure to enter the code into the computer that caused the disturbance and the crash of 815. No swan station, no computer, no crash. I've read a lot of post stating that maybe the 1977 losties are zapped back to the future. Have you ever thought about the 2007 losties being zapped back to the past? If the Faraday's theory about the bomb blast was correct and the 1977 losties changed the past and therefore the future. Flight 815 doesn't crash and Jack, Kate,Sun, Hurley, Ben and Locke's body aren't on the Ajira 316 flight and so they just disappear like a fart in the wind (Shawshank reference) from the beach in 2007.
  90. Aryanus posted on 05/18/2009 07:02 AM
    I have a theory about the loophole. Jacob and the man in black made a reference that maybe they are stuck in a continual loop of time. However long this loop of time may be(hundreds of years or thousands), every time it gets to the end, it immediately starts over again. No one except Jacob and Man in Black notices, but for them "each time is progress." I think they learn more and more facts each time it happens which prompts Man in Black to say "someday I'll find my loophole." So, this is my theory: Ben was never really supposed to be a factor in this whole "equation." He has been a HUGE variable ever since Kate brought him to the others. I think this completely disrupts the time loop that Jacob is weaving, which is why he says, "what about you?" In other words, 'you were never important to what I'm trying to do.' Widmore, however, is connected to the man in black. I think he and Ben were given some kind of instructions by Jacob when Widmore was banished on how to follow the rules of this time loop. When he had Ben's daughter killed, he changed the rules. I think that never happened in the previous time loops. But now that it has, Ben has changed as a person. This, in turn, allowed him to be judged differently by the smoke monster( which I DON'T think is the man in black). In previous time loops, I think it killed Ben because Alex was still alive and he wasn't a changed man. By keeping Ben alive, man in black was able to influence this "variable to the equation" and find a loop hole. I think that at the end of every loop of time, the 1977 losties are blown back to the future and save Jacob. Every time this happens, the loop starts again, man in black has to start all over and Jacob has to start weaving to keep him at bay. This is why Fake-Locke had such a worried look when Jacob said "they're coming." He needed to hurry and kill Jacob before the loop started again.
  91. I LOVE Lost! posted on 05/18/2009 09:47 AM
    Great Finale! After reading the posts here are some thoughts 1.) Richard said he went to visit Locke several times as a child and found nothing special about him. That's because the Locke that he visited was not the real Locke it was MIB (man in black). He chose the knife because he wanted to kill Jacob, Real Locke told Richard that he would choose the compass. MIB didn't know that Locke and Richard had spoken and MIB had already begun his plan of action to take over as Locke. Get it?!?! 2.) If you believe MIB is Christian Shepard, Claire, etc. Then of course it makes sense that he told Locke he had to die. He needed Locke to die so he could take his place and manipulate the situation back on the island. 3.) I love Miles! 4.) The radiation theory causing the problems on the island. That was mentioned by several people after the episode where they found the bomb. 5.) I liked Juliette and Sawyer much more than Kate and Sawyer.
  92. nik27 posted on 05/18/2009 12:45 PM
    I was entertaining the thought that Lost started as a concept similar to that of the bermuda triangle and started reading this website http://www.bermuda-triangle.org/ I came across this http://www.bermu....ime___being.html and thought it was interesting. I also was on abc's website for Lost and there is this: http://abc.go.co....l_chronological. You can sort the timeline chronilogically or episodically. I sorted it chronilogically and it shows Richard going to young Locke in the same timeframe as when Sawyer and them are in 1977. This got me to thinking that when young Locke chose the knife instead of the compass it is a revelation to Richard that Locke's body was already taken over by "evil" in 2007...(remember Richard is the only one that is in 1977 as well as 2007. So as things are happening in 2007, the past (in another dimension/time) is progressing differently. So are all the flashbacks/forwards and what we are viewing as the present actually happening at the same time - is everything constant and occationally those timeframes intercrossed? (example when Sawyer saw Kate helping Claire give birth) Similar to the thing I posted above regarding Time and Being. Thoughts?????
  93. Colleen posted on 05/18/2009 05:37 PM
    *sigh* I can't believe we have to wait a whole year...
  94. 4Ward posted on 05/19/2009 01:00 AM
    lle qui nos omnes servabit He who will save/protect us all in other words Jacob is in the shadow of the statue
  95. asshole posted on 05/19/2009 05:35 PM
    Thanks for the update
  96. andybm posted on 05/20/2009 10:12 AM
    what's up with hurley and the guitar case?? why were they (the others) not able to have babies??
  97. Scanner420 posted on 05/24/2009 09:34 AM
    Hey all....two things I noticed. First....all of the Black/White issues that have appeared so far, have actually been discussed when Locke taught Walt the History of Backgammon way back in the Season One Pilot. Second....Can anyone do a side-by-side of Essau and the Jacob Ghost from the Cabin that said "Help me". I think they're similiar.
  98. RSR posted on 05/27/2009 07:38 AM
    Lost rewatch fan event (rewatching entire series, with discussion of easter eggs and other info we know now but didn't the first time around) This looks fun, and is something I was thinking about doing myself. I think I may begin the process a little late as the first two seasons come out on Blu-ray in mid june (fathers day, start dropping hints now!) http://www.docar....rzt-and-friends/
  99. Phil posted on 07/20/2009 10:36 AM
    Two things.... The loophole is that he found a way he could kill Jacob, through Ben, and the skeletons..... Back in season 3 there was a backwards vocal that said "only fools are enslaved by space and time" which is an anagram for "bones of Nadlers may lay deep in lost caves." This was clued by the producers back for Not in Portland.
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