Follow The Leader - 05-06-09
Posted 5/6/2009 1:23:00 PM
Follow The Leader - 05-06-09 Jack and Kate are at odds over the direction to take to save their fellow island survivors, and Locke further solidifies his stance as leader of "The Others."
Posted By: Preston and Steve  

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  1. Jeff posted on 05/06/2009 09:18 PM
    Can someone explain how Faraday can die in 77 when he was alive in 2004? I know he said there are variables, this is their present, and whatnot, but I don't get this whole time travel theory. It was so much simpler when "what happened happened" and the future cannot be changed
  2. Ryan posted on 05/06/2009 09:47 PM
    Lost has gotten REALLY off track. I apologize for getting irritated that you guys stopped talking about it. They must have hired some of the writers that Heroes fired because they are just phoning it in at this point. First, you can't "destroy" energy like Faraday said a number of times before he died. The first law of Thermodynamics is that energy can't be created or destroyed, just transformed. So they can't "destroy" the electromagnetic energy underground. Second, even if time travel were possible (which it isn't) it is a straight line and you could probably jump around by making loops in the line, but you can never drastically change what happens by erasing and redrawing the line. If Jack changes the future so that their plane never crashes then he is never on the island to change the future. It just doesn't work. If this series ends with Flight 815 landing in LA because something they did in the past changed the future it will be the same as saying that "it was all a dream" and a complete cop out of a real ending. The whole story line of the group in 1973 needs to go away because it is ruining the series. The current time frame with Richard and John Locke is exponentially more interesting. I just hope that the season finale isn't as much of a let down as the last two episodes.
  3. Sarge posted on 05/06/2009 10:01 PM
    this show is just *hit the bed tonight. It was a ver weak lead in to the season finale, we still don't know what Richard Alpert's deal is?? I just hope Sawyer lays the smackdown on the Dharma people. Please end it already!!!!
  4. Brian C. posted on 05/06/2009 11:03 PM
    Ok.... After watching this episode, and the preview for next week, I have a hypothesis.... Jack = Jacob. Jack is often a shortening of Jacob, so it would fit... People are only doing as he(Jacob) said because he still has the bomb and uses it as a you better do this or else type thing. Locke somehow figured it out (Island told him), and that is why he wrote that letter to Jack. This would mean that they do not set off the bomb, the plane still crashes, and it happens all over again, and again, and again (What happens, happened). I also realized that no one talked of Jacob until the present. In the 40s, 70s, etc, it has always been Richard (Ben telling Sun he has been an advisor for a very, very, very, very long time). As for The Island itself, I have my own theory there too. Maybe it is a mecca for religous/spiritual perfection (Utopia, Shangra-la, Garden of Eden, etc). The Others are those worthy to enter, as proven by Whitmore's disgust that Richard took little Ben into the holy area and he wasn't one of them. Unfortunately science got in the way (Dharma) and found unnatural means to travel to/from. It(Island) is doing what It can to right the wrongs created by Dharma, ie: the Incident next week; the bomb that should have killed everyone in the 40s; All the Dharma people besides Desmond dieing, and probably many other events yet to be revealed. Unfortunately something or someone keeps stopping It from fixing the problem and the cycle continues. One could argue that Richard is a previous Locke... Someone brought in to be the voice of the Island, now the Island sees Richard has failed and instead recruited John to try and fix it, by killing Jacob. If Jacob = Jack, John is probably the only person that could get through to him now.
  5. Brian C. posted on 05/06/2009 11:18 PM
    @Jeff - What happened did happen. As faraday was dieing, he looked at his mom and said "You knew this would happen". Obviously she didn't know what it meant then, but in now she does. She knew what ever she would have said to him about the island and the "mission" he would have gone, since she killed him in 1973. @Ryan - I don't think Faraday wanted to destroy the energy, just the swan station that was being built. He would have known you can not destroy the energy. As for the time traveling part, it is not possible with current technology. Also, if you watch Fringe (J.J's other show) they talked about it this week too. You do not change the line, you create a new one next to your old one. I know, that contradicts what I said above, but it is two different trains of thought. Some say time is more like a bunch of lines running next to each other, each slightly different based on choices made at specific moments in time. While we can not change what happened, we can move from line to line, making it seem like our changes worked... There is also no proof that they changed anything yet. Desmond may have just "forgotten" Faraday's conversation with him until then, not suddenly knew about it for the first time.
  6. Kenny posted on 05/06/2009 11:40 PM
    To Jeff: Faraday was able to die in 1977 because for him that was the present. His present self was killed in 1977, but his baby self will grow up to be a physicist/time-travelologist who goes back in time to 1977 and gets killed by his mother. Don't try to think about it too much, you'll just end up getting a nose bleed. I agree that if this show ends with goddamn 815 landing in Los Angeles it's time to get out the torches and pitchforks and string up Lindelof and Cuse on the nearest tree. If the whole 6 year journey ends with, "Well, none of it ever actually happened," then what the hell was the point of watching it? J.J. Abrams goes on and on and on about the journey being the best part of the mystery, and yet they're willing to simply erase the journey. I just don't get it.
  7. Beth posted on 05/07/2009 06:27 AM
    OK Clearly a set-up episode but not too bad - some funny lines. This series has proven at the end of each season to put out a truly mind blowing finale. I doubt this finale will dissapoint. As for the time travel discussion - we don't know that anything has changed... yet. I hate SKate.
  8. Scanner420 posted on 05/07/2009 08:06 AM
    Just when you thought they were giving you have a new crapload of questions after last nights episode. NTM you get a monster headache trying to figure everything out. It was a great setup episode for the Season Finale next week.
  9. greatone4825 posted on 05/07/2009 08:18 AM
    NOTHING has changed yet, and we dont know that anything will change. In the scenes from next week you see that sawyer and all come back and try to stop jack. All this means is that they probably do stop him. richard has to be from the future also, because how could he have lived so long otherwise? he must always know what will happen and only plays a ruse. I still think locke is jacob. Look at the pictures. picture of jacob in cabin: http://www.prest....view.php?id=6408 Look at this picture, the man here looks like he has an outift on from revolutionary times, with a wig and the puffy shirt in the front. Look at this picture of locke: http://www.derok....%20o%27quinn.jpg If you look at lockes nose and chin it looks very similar to the chin and nose of jacob from the picture. here is a picture of the real john locke: https://ushistor....w/john-locke.jpg the real john locke looks like he could be a bald man wearing a wig high on his head, and has a broad chin. take another look at the 3 pictures, i think you will see resemblances. Let me know what everyone thinks, or if i am totally off base.
  10. Fred posted on 05/07/2009 09:19 AM
    Ryan if the show bothers you sooo much why do you watch it?
  11. Jimmy Two Times posted on 05/07/2009 10:20 AM
    I argee with the one fan we should hang the writers of this stinking show if it ends with 815 landing in L.A. what a crock of shit . I think the show was LOST when J.J. abrams gave up on it when he started cloverfield and fringe etc. and handed this piece of shit to so-called writers, he even said they ran out of ideas i read on lostpedia. I just think the show LOST it's balls after season 3. And thats why P&S stop talking about it.
  12. Di5 posted on 05/07/2009 10:34 AM
    I'm confused about the episode where Ben Kills his father and the rest of the Dharma peolple. Where does that fit into the bomb incident that Daniel was trying to stage now?
  13. Ireland posted on 05/07/2009 10:47 AM
    I agree with a lot of what is said above (I was disgusted with how boring it was last night but it was a set up epi for the finale and the time travel is getting so hard to follow) but this is our show folks, JJ hasn't let us down yet so hang in know we have a huge finale ahead of us and the time travel can't be forever...remember when this show was just 20 or so people on the beach? :-)
  14. Paul D posted on 05/07/2009 11:04 AM
    If you go onto you would find out that the "Jacob" in his cabin was played by Rob Kyker, the prop master that works on the set. So it is neither Jack or Locke sitting in that chair. If Rob will be replaying the role or if Jacob is a "man of many faces" the writers are being tight-lipped about.
  15. BB posted on 05/07/2009 05:25 PM
    Jacob = Christian or Richard. Be shocked if anyone else. Christian became undead in some sense, whether he's really alive or just some type of image. Before drinking himself to death, he certainly traveled - how else is he Claire's father. So, he could have traveled back and forth from the island. Take a look at the Jewish history of Jacob. He’s the father of Israel, much like Richard may be the father of the island. Jacob also had a hand in Egyptian history – father of Joseph who became the Pharoah’s #1 advisor. Richard is the advisor of whoever is the leader of the Others – Widmore, then Ben, then Locke. There are definite Egyptian influences on the island (statue of probably Egyptian god, hierglyphics in the temple). Richard is ageless and some have even said has some similiarities to Egyptians - the eye brows, etc. If I remember right, the Purge comes in the 1980's. Ben is a teenager when he kills his father in the van and the Others let the gas out to kill the remaining Dharma people. Anyone notice the similiarities leading up to the finale this season vs last season. In both cases the episode before the finale everyone is scattered around. Last season we knew the Oceanic 6 were going to be united in the finale. The scenes for next week suggest the same type of thing for at least those in 1977. I'd guess we find out who Jacob is but not why he's Jacob next week. We have to wait til next season for the latter. I'd also guess Jacob will be key in uniting the survivors from 1977 with those in 2007. That and the entymology (aka remaining mysteries) of the island will probably be what next season is about.
  16. Murfette posted on 05/07/2009 07:01 PM
    I still have a few questions that yey have been answered, can anyone tellme what happened to the Children on the island? Is Jacob from the Balock Rock ship, the Captain who is podssibly given a second chance to right his wrongs of slavery? Can the island be like the movie "Stargate" wherein Richard is from the future or another planet, hence why he doesn't age or the properties of the island stop aging alltogether. In the movie Stargate "Ra" aka Jaye Davison needed "bodies" to assist with his metabolic changes. "RA" supposed;y visited Earth and the "egyptian" peoples flourished because of the knowledge he imparted and controlled. Just a thought.
  17. Elsewhere posted on 05/07/2009 07:27 PM
    Maybe Jack trying to blow up the swan site is the "incident" that the doctor talked about in the one training film. Just an idea.
  18. Scott posted on 05/07/2009 08:10 PM
    The Purge occurred in 1992. In Season 4's episode "Cabin Fever," Locke sees Horace in a dream, and in that dream Horace informs Locke that he has been dead for 12 years. Locke had this "dream" in 2004 and do the math.....1992.
  19. Jeff posted on 05/07/2009 08:40 PM
    So I guess this is what's happening. Time travel clones you. Miles saw his baby self, and Locke saw himself when Richard was taking the bullet out. Faraday died in 77, but he has yet to be born at that time. Eloise is still going to have Faraday, and he could still be alive in another time period... right?
  20. Justin N. posted on 05/08/2009 12:47 AM
    Listen.... Jake is Jacob Ben is evil Richard is the captain of the ship Locke is the voice of the island
  21. John posted on 05/08/2009 10:41 AM
    What ever happened to Bernard and Rose and what year are they in?
  22. guesswork posted on 05/08/2009 11:03 AM
    Richard Alpert is RA, I've heard rumors. Makes sence, he doesn't age and wears eyeliner, typical egyptian god right. In the temple, the smoke monster is represented by Apep... Apep was a snake, or cobra... Apep was the god of all darkness and chaos. He was believed to have taken a discarded form of Ra. Apep is the eternal enemy of Ra, the sun god. Serpents were a major nescience in upper and lower Egypt, so they gave the form of a snake to things that were evil. There are many stories about the battles between Ra and Apep. Egyptians needed reasons for things that happened that they didn't understand, like earthquakes, droughts, eclipses, ect… Apep was said to live underneath the world, because of his dislike of the sun. Not sure if this was discussed, too much blog to read through. The statue should hopefully give some new answers. I believe Richard and the Smoke Monster have been on the island as gods for a long long time. Any opinion on this?
  23. cntrlfrk1 posted on 05/08/2009 11:54 AM
    Here's my theory, I've been building it for a LONG LONG time. I think the island is the place where the Tree of Life was hidden from humanity after Adam & Eve ate from the tree of knowledge. Basically, now that mankind demontrated evil/sinful tendancies, God didn't want us eating from the tree of life & being immortal and sinful. Genesis 3:21-24 It says in a nutshell that God placed an angel (Richard Albert - you see the way he serves anyone appointed by the island, angels.) to protect the island with a flashing sword. The tree of life could have healing powers & since it's supposed to be hidden from man kind & not to be found - what better way to hide it then to hide it in time. Our perception of time is very different than Gods... Just a thought. Haven't gotten all the details...
  24. ana d posted on 05/08/2009 03:43 PM
    guesswork....i have been saying richard alpert is RA for MONTHS now and NOONE has taken any notice to it. i think its beyond obvious. cntrlfrk1...where are you getting the tree of life has healing properties?? clearly you are just pulling this out of your ass. the show has already explained that the healing properties of the island come from the high levels of electromagnetism. for everyone who is whining that this weeks episode was american idol then. this weeks episode was awesome!
  25. squirrel posted on 05/08/2009 04:49 PM
    elloise was pregnant when she shot faraday (her son). widmore placed his hand on her stomach and told her not to go to the bomb because she is pregnant
  26. Scott posted on 05/09/2009 05:13 PM
    @ Jeff, Time travel does NOT clone anyone. Miles was able to see himself as a baby because he time traveled, as an adult, to the spot where he lived as a baby. Faraday does not exist in a separate dimension, his timeline ended in the same year it began. Imagine a straight line beginning and ending, let's say the line begins in 1978 and ends in 2007. Whoever this line belongs to was 29 when he or she died. Faraday lived his life in a straight line through 2004 (from 1978 for the sake of arguement). In 2004, his line curved backwards to 1974 and he lived his final three years in the 70's. He was still the same Dan, just living in different location in time, his line began in 1978 and ran through 2004 before it bent back to the 70's. As Faraday explained earlier this season, time is like a stream, you can jump out and move up and down the side of the stream and jump back in at any point, but you cannot change the stream, you can just experience it. Now, the hard part to grasp is that, even though he was born in 1978 and lived in the future, he ALREADY died in the past. In his flashback, we saw that Eloise was not the most loving mother, and it is safe to assume that she nourished his genius in order for him to figure out how to travel back in time so she would kill him, because she knew that she had already done so. Now I'm assuming that Jack's plan fails and she realizes she cannot change what happened in the past and that's why she pushed her son to travel back, because she knew that one way or another, he would go back. Here's some food for thought. Imagine yourself in the year 3000. You are the head of a security agency that locates time travelers and arrests them and quarantines them on the moon. The company arrests these people because in 2500, time travel was invented, but in 2750, all disease was eradicated; there's no way to tell which side of 2750 they come from, so you have to assume that they are all diseased. One day, a time traveler is brought into your office for questioning. You look at the man and he is a mess, his clothes are ripped, his face is black with mud and dirt, and he stares at you with a crazed look, but doesn't say anything. You begin asking the man questions like "Who are you?" "Where are you from?" "WHEN are you from?", but he does not answer. Finally, you order him escorted away into quarantine. The machine the man traveled with is left on your desk and contains a settable clock (like in back to the future) and two buttons, one says past, one says future. You look at the machine with confusion because you know that only time travel to the future is possible, traveling to the past is impossible. curiously, you begin to fiddle with the machine and set it to 1944 to witness World War II because you are interested in history. You press the button and are automatically transported to a battlefield in the past. There is gun fire around, and are being chased by soldiers. You fall in the mud many times, get caught in bushes, tearing your clothes. You quickly set the machine to your current time period and are quickly transported home. Before you know it, however, you are surrounded by police and are escorted to your office. You are standing in front of your past self being asked the same questions you just asked less than 20 minutes ago. You don't answer because you know a.) you wouldn't believe yourself, especially since travel to the past is "impossible" and b.) you know that you don't answer the questions. You are then taken away to be quarantined and the cycle simply begins again. The question to think of (especially in terms of Locke's compass) is, "How did the time machine come to exist?"
  27. BigBen posted on 05/10/2009 11:52 AM
    Ok, a few have said Richard Alpert is "RA", who or what is RA? Someone said they have been saying that for months, I searched the forum and found no mention of it. What do you all mean besides it being his initials??
  28. cdog1138 posted on 05/10/2009 08:24 PM
    Its been a great season and I can't wait for the finale. Will the incident bring everyone together, or will we lose a couple of characters during the event? Does it matter? Most of the people that die show back up at some point. Claire is the person I am wondering about most. She has been absent all season. Will Kate's desire to find her manifest itself in the season finale? I think Richard Alpert (RA) may show his true colors when he has to deal with the "new improved" John Locke. He may not be so easy going when Locke tries to kill Jacob. Hope to hear about a LOST party this week on Preston and Steve.
  29. LOSTfan posted on 05/11/2009 11:52 AM
    bigben.... "RA" is egyptian god of the sun... Egyptian pharohs were believd to be manifestations of Ra. so maybe R.A. is actually Ra. It would explain a great deal. we've had numerous egyptian references over and over again (the statue, the smoke monster, the hieroglyphs, underground caves, not aging). check it out at http://lostpedia...._Alpert/Theories I like the theory posted on Lostpedia that Locke is there to take Richards place and Richard will die once Locke takes over.
  30. mikedhuber posted on 05/12/2009 09:51 AM
    to ryan: you are correct in that the first law of thermodynamics states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. but i think what faraday wanted to do was cause an explosion to disperse the energy, rather than have it remain in it's consolidated, powerful form. just a thought. starting to look more and more like those skeletons in the cave are those of jack and kate...
  31. Drew posted on 05/12/2009 04:25 PM
    Jeff. Technically, Faraday did not die until 2004. This is because it was not until 2004 that he started shifting to different places in time and eventually ended up in the year '77 and was shot by his mother. His death was the last thing to happen to him and it happened after all the other experiences in his life from '77 to '04. He was just visiting the year '77. That is why his age and appearance did not change and why Eloise was still pregnant with him. This is also why he was able to visit the '50s before he was even born at all.
  32. Gina posted on 05/12/2009 07:23 PM
    First, Richard Alpert does not wear eyeliner. The producers discussed this - his eyes truly just look like that. Next, I don\'t think Richard Alpert is from the future. All of his \"knowledge\" has been supplied to him by the members of the plane while they are travelling through time. He only \"knows\" Locke has been shot because Locke told him, he only knows who Kate and Jack are when they land because he already met them when little Ben was shot. I could go on and on, BUT I don\'t think he has any true power of his own. And, isn\'t it odd that he always seems to follow someone who is NOT from the Island? Whitmore? Ben? Locke? I\'d still like to know what they were actually doing with the children, and why it is such a bad idea for Claire to be separated from her son! Yeesh.
  33. Lumin posted on 05/12/2009 08:10 PM
    I think there are alot of answers in season 1. When they found the caves with the two dead bodies, Jack took a small sack off one of the bodies. It had two small polished stones in it. One black one white. Its hard to tell if he put the sack back with the body. Locke makes all kinds of references to Backgammon through out the first season...and to tie this nonsense in to this season, Claire had dreams written in her diary about being trapped in the black rock. How would she know about that? They haven't discovered it yet. What is the possibility people born on the island? I think Fariday (if he was born on or conceived) could do all the math and calculations that the LampPost station could do. Miles could read minds of the dead. What is baby Arron going to be able to do? And dont forget Sun and Gins kid is kind of abandoned at this point. Who knows? I love LOST and the end to this show will not be a plane landing at LAX. (at least i hope not) They said in a DVD extra they it wouldn't be a dream or some shitty cop out
  34. McGinnis posted on 05/13/2009 07:45 AM
    Well, if lost is going to follow some laws when they all go back in time it is their present, so anything can happen to them to affect them or the time line. Linier time would make anything that happens to someone that travels back in time from our present would have to have happened in the past as well. So Dan dyeing before he was even a thought to his mom would mean that even know she knew that she had killed her son she was total aware that she would have a child. so either she had him with a purpose of knowing she would kill him in the past, or that no matter what she would have him just to kill him later...well earlier. If it can be made shorter I think they might even say it, you can’t change the past. While they are all on the island in season one they where already there in the past, so I don’t think they will have any success in setting the bomb off, or maybe they will…
  35. Ken posted on 05/13/2009 11:18 AM
    So, I was watching Twister the other day, I looks like feuds exist between movies as well. Faraday is one of the good Twister guys and Phil (security dude) is on the Bad Twister team. Silly, but kinda noticed it. this has nothing really significant about tonight show.
  36. psq posted on 05/15/2009 08:50 PM
    Loophole - Ben killed John - John comes back to life. Jacob can reset the past by his actions and misdeads. So if John kills Jacob its just as if it did not happen. But if Ben kills Jacob as he did well now we have a loophole. Jacob goes back in time and decides that Ben should not kill John - well Jacob still dies. He decides to kill Ben in the past to save his own life - well than John lives and he kill can kill Jacob in the present. If he goes back to kill John what does he do - Kill John, nope than Ben kills Jacob, Kill Ben - nope than John kills Jacob. Kill them both in the past before Ben kills John - well that will cause some issues as John will come back again and again. As he did......aka loophole....
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